Mythras’ (the new name for RuneQuest 6th edition) latest addition is the “Classic Fantasy” supplement, available as a .PDF and soon to arrive in print.
This might very well hit the sweet-spot in terms of fantasy roleplaying, offering a d100 approach to classic dungeoneering while also solving many of the problems I’ve always complained about with classic editions of Dungeons & Dragons.
Mythras scratches my itch for a bit more detail than the original editions of Dungeons & Dragons provide… and that’s kind of the point. While I have come to appreciate that, in many ways, the less-is-more approach of the Old School offers a lot to playability, I still hanker to fix those aforementioned problems.
Here’s how Classic Fantasy addresses those issues.
The Problems with D&D
All of the problems I perceive with Dungeons & Dragons really are strengths when you want to play a fast-and-loose dungeon game. In that sense, they are only problems if you want what I generally end up wanting whenever I get a few sessions into a Dungeons & Dragons campaign. What it boils down to is verisimilitude, also known as “a sense of believability”, or (more technically) “the appearance of being true or real”.
The issues with D&D boil down to a few areas that my previous attempts to write my own game have tried to address:
- The abstraction of combat to a single d20 roll, against the single Armour Class value of the opponent; this leads to roll-playing in combat, with the focus being on the die value and not the action.
- The abstraction of Armour Class, which allows heavy armour to make you harder to strike; this always feels intuitively “wrong” because armour ought to reduce injury but make you slightly easier to strike.
- The abstraction of critical strikes into, basically, more damage… and that’s only if you use the later editions of D&D; oh, and no hit locations, so no “head shots”.
- The rising Hit Point total, which eventually makes a hero as tough as a dragon in terms of what injury can be taken.
- The limitations of Class which railroad you into a particular set of abilities that are then niche-protected by the game rules.
- Some fairly weird situations arising from the classic Thief skills – such as only a Thief being able to open a locked door, but this being the main skill set that makes playing a Thief worthwhile.
Actually, I could go on… but these are the top six.
Of course, if you want a fast-and-loose dungeon game and you don’t want to get bogged down with such concerns… well, Dungeons & Dragons is your game of choice. I wouldn’t hesitate to introduce new gamers to roleplaying with D&D and it’s no surprise to me that it has long been the Gold Standard for fantasy roleplaying.
The points above are only problems if you want less abstraction and you can stomach a chunk of extra detail.
Combat Fixes
Mythras adopts and develops the original RuneQuest combat system into a very smooth beast. I wrote about it for the Iron Tavern back in 2013, so if you want the details… well, hit the link. In short, it fixes the combat problems thus:
- The defending combatant is allowed to defend themselves – they can parry, for example, throwing opposed rolls into the mix to engage both players.
- Armour encumbers but offers a reduction of damage; it is accounted for across the hit locations because, yes, you can target specific areas of the body.
- Hit points don’t scale with experience, so heroes are just as vulnerable and squishy throughout their careers; they have to use their skill and wits to stay alive against those dragons.
- Cool special effects, including critical strikes and fumbles, are also included; these allow you to do some nifty moves and out-class your opponent.
When I ran my solo game with Pyry last year, I felt that the combat system lent a lot to the story-telling aspect of the game. In other words, the way the fights play out evolves a story in a way that classic Dungeons & Dragons doesn’t. No more “I hit” or “I miss”… it becomes a lot more involved. If you don’t believe me, consider that the write-up from Pyry’s encounters were not edited post-game to spice them up.
What Classic Fantasy brings to Mythras, however, is a detailed system for using miniatures at the tabletop. If you (like me) prefer to use grids and miniatures, this system emulates the best of recent Dungeons & Dragons editions… but leaves the default “theatre of the mind” in place for those who want to keep it.
Dungeon Fantasy Classes
What Classic Fantasy adds to Mythras is an adaptation of the classic Class system to a game whose main strength is perhaps not having a Class system in the first place.
By adopting the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons range of classes, including the Unearthed Arcana choices, Classic Fantasy evokes the classic game’s feel and tone. What I love, however, is the inclusion of this paragraph too:
“In a normal game of Classic Fantasy, once a campaign is underway, there is no real restriction on how you choose to advance your character. If you want to have your magic-user learn additional weapons, start training with one. If you want your fighter to get really good at climbing walls, practise climbing some walls. It’s this freedom that makes Classic Fantasy so unique compared to other class-based games.” – Classic Fantasy, page 65.
In other words, when you create a character you do so using the archetypal Class choices from the original game; as you advance through play, however, you can take the skills of your character in any direction you fancy. Niche protection comes from the special Class Talents only available to your class, but the rest is flexible.
For example, in our current Red Box D&D game, a Magic-User can only use a dagger in a fight… at least, once he’s fired off his one Magic Missile spell. In Classic Fantasy, he’ll be able to learn any weapon skill he fancies – given time, effort, and an investment of Experience Rolls. He might, of course, choose not to do so… but at least he can make that choice which the original game bars to him.
Thus, this addition to Mythras lets us emulate the classic style of play but also removes the limitations that challenge verisimilitude. And yes, you can still multi-class to get those special Class Talents from more than one Class.
Believable Skill System
The door is locked. No, you are not a thief so you can’t pick the lock; do you have a Magic-User with the “Knock” spell? No? Oh, well you can’t open a locked door then.
“Doors are common in most dungeons. Many doors are locked, and most doors are stuck. If locked, a door cannot be opened until a thief unlocks it or until a magic-user casts a Knock spell upon it… If not locked, a stuck door can be forced open by any character.” – Dungeon Master Rulebook (BECMI), 1983, page 16.
Don’t get me wrong, I love this about Dungeons & Dragons… right up until there’s a locked door and our level 1 party doesn’t have a Thief. It’s a game more than it’s about reality – these oddities arise from the need to give Thieves a role and desire to keep away from a skill system. Remember: I’m running a BECMI game right now, and loving it!
But…
This sort of stuff bugs me and it can undermine verisimilitude. We want cool Thieves, surely, but we also want the low-level party without one to have a chance at opening that locked door… well, because we probably want to know what’s on the other side.
Mythras comes with a simple d100 skill system that handles this nicely. Classic Fantasy also gives the Thief class some really cool Class Talents to make them stand out. Everyone’s a winner.
And, yes, I know it’s not just opening locked doors. It’s just that this is the one big bug I encountered last session with D&D.
Downsides
At the beginning I said that this “might well hit the sweet-spot”. Some readers will have balked at my apparent hedging. It’s no hedge: there are some downsides to switching out from your classic Dungeons & Dragons to Mythras Classic Fantasy.
Firstly, you need to convert adventures and campaigns which will take time. Dungeon Fantasy comes with lots of monsters and spells, which helps a great deal, but you still need to consider how your neatly designed adventure will run in the new system. For me, the acid test is still to come: can I run the Red Box First Adventure using Mythras Classic Fantasy and get a suitably emulated result? Watch this space for a report.
Next, you need to consider that the more detailed rules are going to slow play. If you want a quick and dirty game, stick to Dungeons & Dragons. If verisimilitude matters, this game offers a solution.
For example, D&D works well on the generic monster stat block; Classic Fantasy provides an alternate monster stat block, but it includes hit location details and skill values (to name but two differences). My work on D&D Monster Cards would be a more challenging fit with all the extra information I need to run the same encounter in Mythras. But then that encounter will involve a detailed and much more exciting battle in which the more skilled character will come on top, in glorious style. Depends on what you want.
Finally, you’ve got to learn a new game. Persuading players comfy with Dungeons & Dragons to learn a whole new system is, well, a tough ask. On the other hand, if they’re fed up with the abstraction that comes from the d20 to hit roll… well, you have a solution.
Classic Fantasy will allow for the depth and detail of Old School gaming while also delivering the kind of solutions to old D&D problems that have bugged me for years.
Game on!
For those needing Encounters Rq6 Encounter Generator Tool might be of use:
https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/rq6-encounter-tool-feature-recap-for-busy-gms/
https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2015/06/02/so-you-want-to-generate-rq-encounters-for-rq6-but-do-not-want-them-to-be-in-glorantha/
Awesome tools – thanks!
I too found the RedBox a little restrictive and would like to be able to do a little more, yet I am very much aware of how easy it could be to drift too far from there towards ‘reality’, ending up with too much ‘roll’ play.
On another note, one thing that concerns me with hit locations, is that I havent yet seen a system that acknowledges the fighting styles associated with certain armour configurations. It’s too easy to get over complex very quickly, but fighters with armour on head, shoulder and 1 arm, would often make a point of blocking with those body parts, knowing that they were ‘safe’.
And knowing that some weapons simply couldn’t penetrate certain armour types unless they struck a joint etc (ie. Needing a critical hit on that location).
I’m not sure where I stand on hit locations due to these discrepancies.
However, a thing that has always bugged me about game systems both role play and tabletop, are the interactions between hitting, armour, saving throws and damage.
Most armours should make a target easier to hit, whether thru reduced mobility or vision.
Different armours work in different ways = prone/resistant to different damage effects.
Different weapons work in different ways = cause different effects and effective/ineffective versus certain armour types.
Different defences should be used vs different attacks; if on target, the defender either dodges or presents suitable armour. Parry with sword/shield/vambrace/helmet even!
After hitting a target the force of the attack needs to beat any present armour to do damage. It is not simultaneous (like beat AC = damage wold suggest).
Bludgeoning will ‘damage’ even when armour protects; concussion/bruising/internal injuries.
Slashing with a heavy weapon will still do bludgeoning damage on armoured.
A sword can do bludgeoning, slashing and piercing, poison too if the blade is treated!
Dagger; slashing and piercing.
Arrows/Crossbow bolts fired directly (not arcing) will do piercing and bludgeoning. I’ve yet to see a role play system where different arrowheads are used. If I was regularly facing heavily armoured enemies I’d change my arrowheads.
To encompass ALL this, a LOT of tables and intricacies must be added. There has to be a streamlined way to do it better, without making the game all about combat.
Ideas are rattling thru my mind, but as so many designers have tried and struggled I feel inadequate to the task b4 I begin.
My feeling is that Mythras offers increased verisimilitude (note: I think that too much reality is a problem) with some pretty sleek rules. It’s not over-complex, but it is more complex. In the end, it’s still a game.
My biggest problem with d100 is scaling monsters to the hero. I usually play solo story driven games with one character.
In D&D I can easily select the opposition for my hero that I know he can match with more or less difficulty, but in RuneQuest and other d100 systems it is rather difficult.
How does Basic Fantasy stands with this issue?
RuneQuest 6 (Mythras) has a very useful discussion on this issue on pages 425-426 of the main rule book. As you need to refer to this to use Classic Fantasy, it’s easy to reference.
In short, they recommend comparing character and opponent skills to being within +/-10%. They also advise on how to use the number of opponents well to challenge but not overwhelm the party. Additionally, there is talk of how to use arms and armour to spice things up. It’s quite helpful advice.
That said, as with all games, experience with the system is the best way to learn to balance things. One thing that helps with Classic Fantasy, of course, is that the monsters presented are emulating D&D standards; this acts as a guide for folk like you and me who are familiar with D&D anyway.
Hope that helps answer your query.
I would also like to point out that I added some Wandering Monster Tables in the appendix that are designed to help those new to Classic Fantasy choose appropriate monsters for beginning adventures. The introduction to those tables further explain their use and offer additional information.
Rod
I agree with you. It’s interesting when a little game archeology is done. When looking at OD&D you see no Thief. Hence no need for a explicit skill list. So it’s possible to think of the stats as overarching meta skills. I like a very minimal skill list though as they can be helpful in play as a lever for moderating and pacing the game.
Looking back to the origin of the class. It was developed by Daniel Wager, he gamed at Aero Hobbies in the 1970s along with Gary Switzer. The original Thief was modelled more on the Cleric class chassis and the thief skills more like “n times a day” quasi spells, others of the “X in 6” variety, others d% yet others automatic upon expending a “use”. Once the Aero Hobbies crowd had a build they liked they rang Gary Gygax long distance to share the idea. GG picked it up and did the more d% version based on his actuarial bent ( which he was studying/working). Wagers version did get to see the light of the day via Arnsons game Complete Warlock. There are quite a few threads on this at Dragonsfoot where Wagner himself explains. From the Thife class introduction the skills classed problems that needed explaining.
So yeah the thief is optional in OD&D, dump it or keep it. All classes can and do have access to “skills” in my old school game already, (per the LotFP rules, my favourite Flavour). Essentially if the player is simply thoughtful and explicit he can tell me what he does and he just does it in our game no skill roll needed just a good way to proceed from the players imagination. Think diceless resolution, if that’s helpful.
For the classic Thief ( Specialist) class, if included – I’m using LotFP with the new playtest rules, wonders and wickedness and playing in the Frog God Lost Lands – their abilities are beyond the scope of other classes and so they are a little special. This is a somewhat common school of thought amongst a section of the OD&D community. The names of the Thief Skills are accepted to imply a specialist application of training outside the normal ability of untrained men. I.e. Other classes. Also what goes with this is the lack of double jeopardy for move silent and hide in shadows and some other bits a bobs. See http://web.fisher.cx/robert/rpg/dnd/thief.html for a good article on this topic.
That is, when it comes to thieves stealth – at our table – it is not hiding, anyone can describe hiding and hide. It’s hiding in only shadows, where there is no cover or object to hide behind but there is shadow. The same with creeping about. Anyone can move to try and create as little noise as possible. Using stealth is movement which is not only quite, but silent in every way when a Specialist does it in our game. It’s a freeform thing but a Specialist/thief will always do the skill things with an ever so slight benift others just don’t get.
I highly recommend LotFP. With the playtest rules it’s even better (minus the new save dice system we keep the d20).
I agree that the combat options in RQ6 are great. They add a lot to combat at the expense of more overhead to combat both in time and bookkeeping etc. I agree that it depends on what level of crunch and immersion your after. It’s great to have both depending on the feel you want for your campaign.
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You ve already answered my questions on previous articles here, but please bear with me for a final query:
My homebrew world is a nautical one. Where classic swashbuckling (though without firearms and canons, but with spells,wands, crossbows and ship mages instead) meets dragon riders, mage-knights, steam-magicking gnomes and other unique professions/classes.
Will I be able to portray all that with classic fantasy? (or perhaps with a combo of any d100 sources and classic fantasy)
Because if so I think this will become the perfect system for me!
Its far away enough from D&D to plase me (hit locations, armour that is piece by piece,variation etc) but at the same time has D&D staples enough to please my d20 hungry group (classes, archetypes, spells unique to dnd as well as more magical items etc)
Its a win win
Once again thanks for taking the time 🙂
I can easily see how I could do those things, yes. Mythras itself will give you lots on non-generic fantasy options, while Classic Fantasy gives your d20 players the D&D feeling. Check out also the optional expansion download on ships available on The Design Mechanism site: http://thedesignmechanism.com/products.php#!/Ships-&-Shield-Walls/p/36842448/category=5186110
Thanks!
I think I am getting the books. And will probably use whatever Legend material I have too 🙂
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